Android Lemur

[Draedus]

I'm an owner of Lemur hardware and I'm ecstatic to see the editor is revived and still compatible with my machine. Thanks for that!!!

I do not own a tablet but am always keeping my eyes out for an Android tablet.
Would love to see Lemur running on android!!

[marino_liine]

Hey Draedus,

We will take it into consideration - Many thanks!

Cheers,
Marino.

[Macciza]

-1 For Android -

Sorry but from what I have seen of a few other apps trying to support Android really isn't worth it . .
Not standardised enough and frustrating as all hell trying to keep everyone happy

Jazz Mutant Lemurs and Apple iPads are stunning flagships of technology . . .
No need to dilute the Lemur Legacy with sub-par Android stuff . . .

Apologies to those who like that sort of thing . . .
Cheers
MM

[bvog]

For what reason do you chime in like this? If you are not interested, what is the benefit for you?

I am a legacy Lemur hardware user and had mine build for wi-fi use in 2006, since this was the one thing missing for me for using with moving actors on stage. I had requested it very early, too early I guess.

When now I was seeing that Liine could licence all things Lemur to port it to IOS - the one thing I was instantly missing was the ability to use it wired as well as through the air. One reason beside data reliability is strictly low latency - very much needed if you don't quantize! I can't see a tablet from Apple somewhere in the future giving me this option.

In my daily studio work I use different platforms - Windows 7, OS X, Ubuntu - I can't see what makes Android a bad choice, maybe others are more expeienced with it. But if it is stable and capable of doing what IOS does - and to my knowledge it defenitly is - I would prefer to be free to choose the hardware I like, the configuration I like - I am used to it, and I know how to benefit from it.

So if you at Liine would decide to go that route, I would support you as good as I can, intensive agile testing against different hardware models included. I think it is worth every afford to have this route open...

So +1

Best regards...
Boris

PS I actually shed some tears when I heard the Lemur should be living on - whatsoever! Big big thanks for keeping on!

[Macciza]

High
"For what reason do you chime in like this? "

Android is not standardised - Not even in terms of its Java base, access to standard Java libraries tec . . .
Suffers from fragmentation of different versions/systems, hardware capabilities, screen resolutions etc
I believe it would be a nightmare to try to convert it to Java and make/keep it compatible with all the different versions/platforms.
Actually you can used the iPad Lemur wired in via MIDI and its likely that network solutions are/will be available also.

I would prefer them to concentrate on supporting iOS and Legacy implementations then to get sidetracked into attempting Android support
And finally - build quality/aesthetics: The Lemur is beautiful in it's design/implementation/production - As is Apple's iPad imho . . .
I do not think the same can be said for the Android product line which includes some pretty 'cheap and nasty' devices . . .
Basically I do not think it is worth the effort and would detract from the support to iOS/Legacy Lemur development

Just my 2 cents worth . . .
Cheers
MM

[bvog]

Java is indeed a point, but there is pretty decent hardware with more real estate - like the lemur had. I guess we need to wait to see where it gets OS wise, Apple Apple Apple is no point at all...

[MBM]

I am a legacy Lemur hardware user and had mine build for wi-fi use in 2006, since this was the one thing missing for me for using with moving actors on stage.

Hello, could you explain how did you do that?

Thanks and best regards.

[bvog]

I didn't do it myself. I had asked Jazzmutant, and they said there would be no option in the near future, so I asked my studio people.

It was rather bulky, two battery packs, a small router package and a little soldering, everything in a wooden box attached underneath the lemur, not at all elegant, but it worked just fine. I only needed to take care to never fully unload the battery packs.
Mostly the wi-fi connection though wasn't reliable enough those days to ensure a steady connection across bigger venues, not to speak about latency. So in the end I didn't use it with any instrument, but as a triggering device for pre programmed stuff. I sill have it, but never used it again for about four years now. Cost me 400 Euros, working hours included, sounds like a joke today.

I think I should attach it again, when in the studio, and post a picture...

[MBM]

Thank you very much for your explanation. I would like that my Lemur was Wi-Fi also. I´d love to see that photos when you can take and upload them.

Thanks and best regards.

[bvog]

I will have to reassemble it, and find all the pieces first. I will post some pictures - including details - here, when I am done. Bear with me, I am quite busy this week.

----

Also - back to the OT - I took a look under the hood, comparing IOS and Android in regards of Java compliance.

IOS: To call IOS standard compliant in regards to Java is - to say the least - a joke. I had forgotten about it, but until last year it wouldn't even allow Java applications to run, and nowadays it requires them to bring the Java runtime by themselves (there is pros and cons to this 'approach', see below).

Android: Android has replaced JVM compliance with DVM, means, it supports Java programmed applications making use of the DVM, but requires a second compilation step to let your Java application use the DVM.

In - very raw - detail: The reason why IOS does not support Java by supplying the JVM is Javas 'ancient' approach to make use of stack machines instead of talking directly to the registers of modern processors. In consequence regarding Java support late Mr. Jobs stated "it's not worth it." In 2010 Apple felt pushed enough by develoipers to at least allow Java applications to be processed on IOS, but only if they bring their own JVM.

Google developed its Android DVM for the very same reason, to let applications talk directly to the processors registers instead of stack machines, for them it was mainly necessary because the overall concept to let applications run only in their own process, hence the need to boost the gain in performance.

In summary the two approaches are similar in forcing applications to run in separated processes from others, but they differ in terms of performance. While the JVM still is stack machine based (so with every call being at least one step more OS dependend), DVM is mainly making use of the processor registers directly.

So Android obviously is making sense here: If you force processes to run independently from each others runtime, give them at least the chance to use the processors directly to not suffer from other runtime's tasks more than necessary. Or: The more independent runtimes you need to execute, the leaner their processing load should be kept, ideally.

For the developer on the other hand it means to run a second SDK to perform the second step of compilation before publishing. They say not a big thing. But I have no practical experience with this step.

Did I mention Android is Linux based, Open Source, free, and not restricted to one single app store?

Best regards
Boris