Premium Content - What do you want to see?

Discuss Lemur and share techniques.
Joe Soap
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Re: Premium Content - What do you want to see?

Post by Joe Soap » 04 Dec 2012 20:09

Hi Macciza . . . while definitely something to bear in mind, I'm not going to hold my breath given the glacial pace of development (and the length of time it takes to fix bugs like The Great Font-Rendering Bug Of Oh-Twelve).

Now, while I have no real problems establishing an ad hoc wifi connection (usual drill, static IPs and pray that the latest update from Liine and / or Apple doesn't break things ) - just having wifi enabled at all plays havoc with low-latency audio on my (and most Windows users) systems.

Wired MIDI has also proved unreliable . . . though I may try and update the firmware (again) and the dreadfully flaky Portmanager s/ware on the iConnects to see if that resolves the issue where Griid Pro crashes whenever I try to expand a Group, or do pretty much anything actually*.

I just gave up on Kapture Pad entirely due to the requirement for naming conventions in Live (flow-killer).

* Didn't open a support ticket, though saw a few other people with the same problem here on the forums - there didn't appear to be any resolution to this issue, at least not one Liine are prepared to discuss on their forums. Can you tell yet that I'm not a fan of behind-closed-doors technical support via email?

So, long story short - it's a risk I'm willing to take, and had I been aware of the option I could have saved in excess of €300 in flaky boutique hardware.

Joe Soap
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Re: Premium Content - What do you want to see?

Post by Joe Soap » 05 Dec 2012 02:57

In retrospect I think that last post came across a little like I was casting blame, just like to say that's not the case. I'm having fun and learning a lot with Lemur, don't regret buying it one bit (or the hardware to run it on).

In fact a major factor in my not bothering with support for GP was deciding to concentrate on Lemur 100%. I figure whatever problem I'm having will get fixed in an update, or I can properly figure it out when it matters to me more. Or I can experiment with alternatives to MIDI and ad hoc wifi to see what works best.

I'd love for you guys to find a way to send the necessary out over the std wire without the hassle of a JB. I'm positive it's not even much of a technical challenge (in the wider scheme of things) - but good luck with persuading Apple to allow networking out over the port and through the std cable, I can't see that happening anytime soon.

If I have to buy another interface device to achieve this when it's (reportedly, usually . . . remember I haven't tried this yet) trivially achievable without the dongle - that's a no-sale.

Anways, no worries either way. I ain't hatin'.

hogo
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Re: Premium Content - What do you want to see?

Post by hogo » 05 Dec 2012 10:50

I would LOVE to see templates that work with Plugins both effects and instruments. Especially in DAWS other than ableton. I have Live, but I also use Logic and would like to see more templates for stuff that works on that. Also, to be able to edit on the ipad only would of course be great. Maybe some templates that give you basics and let you slightly tweak them to do your bidding without all of the coding or scripting and such. Anyways, lemur is already dope and will only get better.

m127
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Re: Premium Content - What do you want to see?

Post by m127 » 07 Dec 2012 07:52

1- I would love to see that the manual is further developed. 1 easy guide for most users, and 1 advanced version with tons of examples of parsing techniques with really good explanations.

I honestly think that JM failed by not worrying more into turning their users into great Lemur programmers. A product like this is only as great as what users are able to do with it. While I have been able to figure out most for my own needs, I see a tremendous gap due to the vast majority of users resorting to use whatever is available.

I can't emphasize enough how much Liine's chance of success is proportionally dependent on the success of the users with their Lemur templates.

2. I think Liine needs to attract pro developer users, and have them create and sell their templates and modules in a Liine managed store for cents or a few dollars. Obviously, any projects or modules would need to be open source, as well as interesting and affordable enough to attract buyers, and thus promote the creation of great Lemur programmers.

Maybe Liine could invest in paying half-time good programmers, and then maybe have them get a commission or similar from their creations.

READ THIS TWICE: As long as good Lemur programmers are only a very few, the Lemur will keep being a niche market and a low --if at all-- profit project.

3. Liine needs to start working asap on a dedicated Windows 8 version of Lemur. No, not only the editor.

Create a "live mode" version of Lemur that is usable in Windows 8 touch computers.
Fact is the ipad is a pain in the arse due to its pathetically small size.
Hardly anything done for Lemur will shine in such a small screen.
New windows 8-ready monitors have 10 or more touch points. Imagine Lemur templates running on 27 inches of 1920x1080 px goodness!!!

Now, t h a t would be impressive.

4. This is probably too much to ask, I don't know, but something incredibly cool would be to allow users to create their own objects, and customized graphics. I want my virtual mixer to open instantaneously by touching Salma Hayek's butt in a custom Lemur template :twisted:

Silly example, but you get the idea ;)

Study how graphics, etc. are customizable in NI Reaktor environment, for example.

5. Finally, here's my premium content request: as others posted above, I would love to see a renewed and more powerfull and bug-free version of Dexter.


The above is just from the top of my head. Don't have too much time to review, etc. Take anything usefull if at all. Cheers! Loving my Lemur!

Phil999
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Re: Premium Content - What do you want to see?

Post by Phil999 » 07 Dec 2012 09:16

m127 wrote:1- I would love to see that the manual is further developed. 1 easy guide for most users, and 1 advanced version with tons of examples of parsing techniques with really good explanations.
that's a very good idea. Beginners have to gather and collect info from various sources, some things like MIDI_ARGS are hardly explained in the manual, it would help very much if there was a 'patch book' like there was for modular synthesisers back in the 70's.

On the other hand, good books need good authors and quite some time, and not all programmers are journalists or writers, some don't even speak fluent English. This is the reason why many companies create some tutorial videos because it's relatively easy to make and doesn't take much time. Or user forums where the user base stems a portion of the workload in teaching newcomers. This has to be considered, good manuals are difficult to make, and I would say that Liine is an exception with a very good manual. Not every small company has such a good manual. When you study it, and have it opened every time you work on a template, you can get very far. Also, the fact that first class content is available for free (user library, forum template/module sharing, Premium Content) makes learning and/or using prefab material very attractive. There are only a few commercial Lemur templates, but they have to be sold privately, not through Liine, which I find a very wise and noble attitude. They could easily make more money with each Premium Content template.

When I started with Lemur, I knew that it will take a lot of patience and work to advance, and now, 11 months later, I can confirm this. But I'm happy with where I am, I can do almost everything I want, and will have finished the most important stuff for my needs in a couple of months. But I've also seen newcomers learning much faster as I did.

The idea of a patch book for advanced users is great. Who's going to write it?
Formant+Eurorack, PPG wave 2.2, Korg MS-20, etc., EWI 4000s, QuNeo, etc., Mixbus32c, u-he, MadronaLabs, Samplemodeling, NI, etc., iPad2/4/Pro

Softcore
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Re: Premium Content - What do you want to see?

Post by Softcore » 07 Dec 2012 15:40

I can see the need for more scripting examples as it can get pretty daunting for a new user (or someone who hasnt worked with scripts and codes before) but generally speaking and Im far from an experienced programmer, I havent seen any program allowing its users to code stuff and still be simpler.

Out of the box, even with no scripting at all - Lemur is a more advanced controller than all my other hardware midi controllers combined - and believe me, throughout the years, I ve bought a lot. The scripting was an added bonus I, initially, had absolutely no idea of and I would never want Lemur to sacrifice any of its versatility in favour of easier usage by inexperienced users (myself included).

Finally, I gotta say that some people want everything ready-made! For those people Lemur will not seem so "great". The amount of knowledge around scripting in Lemur is already there and its called user library - premium content. All you have to do is download one or two termplates that feature the stuff you want to do and "reverse-engineer" it to comprehend it or heck even just copy-paste the right stuff into your project. Thats not that hard.

Lemur IS ALMOST plug-n-play in the sense of "I want 10 faders there, 20 knobs here and 10 buttons there". The scripting allows for stuff you couldnt even think of doing with conventional controllers and its not fair to complain about the complexity of these! ;)

Of course, what needs to be fixed ASAP is some aspects of the manual which dotn even reference the correct functions (such as mouselbutton, mousemove, etc etc)

Phil999
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Re: Premium Content - What do you want to see?

Post by Phil999 » 07 Dec 2012 16:01

Softcore wrote:The scripting allows for stuff you couldnt even think of doing with conventional controllers and its not fair to complain about the complexity of these! ;)
well said, and very true.
Formant+Eurorack, PPG wave 2.2, Korg MS-20, etc., EWI 4000s, QuNeo, etc., Mixbus32c, u-he, MadronaLabs, Samplemodeling, NI, etc., iPad2/4/Pro

m127
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Re: Premium Content - What do you want to see?

Post by m127 » 07 Dec 2012 19:15

OK, but what I wrote was not a complaint.
I made actual suggestions to promote user expertise of the Lemur, and thus help the project survive.
There is no better marketing than 1 gazillion users showing off their thousands of awesome templates everywhere vs only 50 users knowing what they are doing.
yes, the current manual has several errors and wrong references.

I am interested in this project's survival because I have spent a whole lot of time developing my templates.

Traxus
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Re: Premium Content - What do you want to see?

Post by Traxus » 07 Dec 2012 22:25

I'm a big PHP guy so naturally I want more array related functions...

foreach() {} [could be helpful]

switch() {} [anyone else tired of typing else if...else if...else if...]

have the actual frame rate accessible as an internal variable

a way to define global variables in a script?

Code: Select all

global globalVar = 1;
//or maybe
decl global globalVar = 1;

Softcore
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Re: Premium Content - What do you want to see?

Post by Softcore » 08 Dec 2012 07:25

m127 wrote:OK, but what I wrote was not a complaint.
I made actual suggestions to promote user expertise of the Lemur, and thus help the project survive.
There is no better marketing than 1 gazillion users showing off their thousands of awesome templates everywhere vs only 50 users knowing what they are doing.
yes, the current manual has several errors and wrong references.

I am interested in this project's survival because I have spent a whole lot of time developing my templates.
I apologize if my reply seemed to be targeted directly at your proposals - this wasnt the case! It merely was about a lot of stuff I've read in this forum regarding the complexity of scripting! ;)

Even though Im new to this, Im also interested in this project's survival because the potentials are great (if not unlimited). ;)

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