can this be done? full midi controller

lewisedwards · Post by **lewisedwards** » 08 Mar 2012 10:34

howdy folks,

been messing more and more with my step sequencer, i will post something up when i feel it is good enough, so far its ok.

got a question which i hope can be answered and helped upon.
on looking at my new controller that im building in lemur for ableton, using max for live and the such. can this be done without max for live or max?
meaning can i build a controller which works how it does with max for live, but not use it. basically just midi and not osc.

the reason being is that i am using max for live already in my set and dont want any conflicting data, plus as well, it would be nice to just use the lemur without having to have max open all the time.
what i am thinking is midi scripting for objects in lemur. is this truly possible and will work with the same speed and features as say max and max for live?
if so, is there any info on this?

i would like to build my new template with a mind of that when you start it you can go on any daw and start playing.
is this possible?

its either that or go the old fashioned path of max runtime, which i dont mind as much. its more stable than max for live.

regards

mat · Post by **mat** » 11 Mar 2012 18:24

Hey lewis,

good question....How far can you go with lemur programming and is max or max4live needed?

Well, I program Lemur for about 3 1/2 years now. The scripting abilities since version 2.0 (2009?) are great. You can move containers, make an controlobject behave relative to another control object, make a menu for dynamic Midichannel on controller and so much more...
However, if it comes to complex tools - like a sequencer - I would prefer doing it in max. It is not that I am such a max-kid. No, in the beginning I did not want to learn max, but I discovered that I had to, if I want to make my dream-controllers (Also sequencers, as you might know I host the Sequencomat series).

The reasons why Lemur scripting is no good idea for complex tools (imho) :
- Lemur scripting and clock implementation is not fast and stable enough if it comes to accurate triggering
- Lemur scripting will count on Lemur memory (which is to small anyway)
- Lemur language is home-brewed code by Jazzmutant, documentation and tutorials are a bit rare

So if you are into max, I think it would be better to use that for building stuff like sequencers.
If the question comes to max or max4live, my clear decission will always be max!
"Normal" max got a free runtime and it can be used by all. If you develop a template you put a lot of effort into it and will prefer sharing it with most people you can. Max4live is nice - I own the bundle too - but to restrictive for me.

Sure, opening another software (max runtime + patch) during setup can be annoying. Some more steps to do...
But till now I had no performance losings running max runtime (even using 2 patches parallel + some max4live patches).

These are just my thoughts about this topic.
On the other hand If you look at e.g. the Lemur templates of Antonio, you can see how far you can go with Lemur programming only

cheers
mat

lewisedwards · Post by **lewisedwards** » 11 Mar 2012 19:20

thanks for that mat,

after messing with a few templates that have full midi, i did noticed a massive difference in speed, huge actually.
i have decided to stick with max and osc, but would still love to learn more on scripting.
plus as well, i am good in max and can build nice things, then just do the templates for lemur afterwards. i was thinking of cutting out one thing to free up time. but seems more trouble to do so

the one question i would like to add to this is about scripting.
is there any info or pdf, books or sheets that have a how to for it?. i would loveto delve deeper, but the lemur manual is not on the one hand, very good for it. and rightly so, it would take too much time to write about it.
but is there any info online to learn?
im currently teaching myself c programming to build my own max externals, but would like to know how to do scripting for lemur.

thanks

lewisedwards · Post by **lewisedwards** » 11 Mar 2012 19:44

i guess one of my questions is, what language is it for scripting in lemur

mat · Post by **mat** » 11 Mar 2012 22:06

you will find some tutorials about lemur scripting on old jazzmutant page:
(btw:wonder how long it will be there, shouldn´t that be overtaken to a new section here on liine: "tutorials"?)
http://www.jazzmutant.com/workshop_tutorialslist.php
especially the Multiline scripting part 1 and 2 is helpfull.

but also be aware of the bugs/problems with lemur scripting mentioned here:
http://liine.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1165

if it comes to max and lemur those both tutorials gave me a start:
http://www.jazzmutant.com/workshop_tuto ... d=maxstepA
http://www.jazzmutant.com/workshop_tuto ... d=maxstepB
during that tutorial you build a little sequencer which can be the basis for extensions...
I build up my own first sequencer on that patch - "Monomat" http://liine.net/en/community/user-library/view/129/
Patch of modumat is open and I try to comment the changes...not really a tutorial...but maybe some usefull links.

Hopes that helps for the start.
Enjoy programming and all the best for your projects - keep us updated with progress.

mat

lewisedwards · Post by **lewisedwards** » 11 Mar 2012 22:48

thats fantastic, thank you for this.
i love lemur, always wanted the hardware, just not the cost. and want to do things withmy new version of software i have planned with lemur.

but its just the first steps that i think everyone needs to have a look at. sure its good to take apart things, but yuo might not learn the right things, if you get me. so these will help quite a bit.
i think its just knowing what things are called or how they are worded is one of the most important things, much like any programming language.
its even the whole thing of how the script is put in for certain things are vague.

but i do hope to share my progress and find through learning lemur further, count on it

again, thanks for this info

lewisedwards · Post by **lewisedwards** » 12 Mar 2012 10:33

just want to share this. i searched on google for 'lemur scripting language' and it came up with this.
just went through it, and was very helpful to learn a basic script... 'HA, basic he says'

but still. is this scripting language lemurs own creation, or is it java, c, c++, cocoa? there are plenty of languages, they are all pretty much the same, but slightly different as well, so which one does lemur slot into?

http://www.tonvibration.de/extra/Lemurt ... fader.html

Post by **Macciza** » 12 Mar 2012 11:05

Hi
I think that is actually one of Mats . . .

Basically it is a C- based scripting language afaik -but only a subset of C . . .
So you want to learn basic C recipes - standard ways of solving problems etc . . .
Similar logic/syntax should work within Lemur for implemented features.

Hope that helps
MM

lewisedwards · Post by **lewisedwards** » 12 Mar 2012 21:41

cheers for that. well im actually starting to learn c programming, so that will cut out a lot of leg work.
got a few books [remember those paper things?

] and am pressing on.

cheers to you both for the helpful words.

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